By The Way, Which One's Pink?

[anarchist_nomad]

Back in Oxford again... this time with no plans to leave until Friday.

Spent the bulk of yesterday in London having a day that mixed fun and frustration. The frustration part came first. I drove out to Battersea to register with the Battersea Dogs & Cats Home and get the ball rolling towards adopting a new kitten into our home. I may have well not bothered and saved myself the trouble. The Battersea Dogs & Cats Home will not adopt a kitten to us because of an insurmountable philosophical difference. To wit: they will not adopt a kitten to a family that will keep it indoors, believing that cats are "wild animals" and will not be happy if they are not allowed outside. Meanwhile, none of our cats have ever been allowed to roam outside, as we believe that cars and other hazards pose too much of a threat. The "wild animal" argument is bollocks -- you don't adopt "wild animals" into your home. Cats are domesticated and if they were truly "wild animals," the shelter need not worry so much about people who let their cats go unattended[*]. I appreciate that the Home screens applicants carefully to make sure that their cats are going to a good home. However, this is beyond a question of providing a "good home" and is simply them being overly dogmatic[**]. I have known plenty of cats -- including some of our own -- who live their entire lives indoors and are quite happy[***]. No cat I have ever known has been happier than Foxy as she cuddled next to cheshcat or me on the couch, or Stumpy as she gets her daily dose of scritching, or The Boy just about all the time[****]. Feh. So that was a waste of my time.

The day did get better, though -- that is where the fun part comes in. In the evening, I made my way to North Greenwich to see Roger Waters perform at the Millennium Dome. I have seen him perform several times before -- at Jones Beach in 1999; in Providence, RI in 2000; at at Madison Square Garden in 2000[*****] -- but it has been many years. So off I went to the ugly-as-hell Dome to go to the show. The first act was a nice selection of songs, both from Pink Floyd and his solo work:

1. In The Flesh (The Wall)
   
2. Mother (The Wall)
   
3. Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun (A Saucerful of Secrets)
   
4. Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Wish You Were Here)
   
5. Have A Cigar (Wish You Were Here)
   
6. Wish You Were Here (Wish You -- oh, you figure it out!)
   
7. Southampton Dock (The Final Cut)
   
8. The Fletcher Memorial Home (The Final Cut)
   
9. Perfect Sense, Part One (Amused To Death)
   
10. Perfect Sense, Part Two (Amused To Death)
    
11. Leaving Beirut (not on an album)
    
12. Sheep (Animals)

The second act was, quite simply, The Dark Side of the Moon. I have never heard the album live before. It was... spectacular. For the encore, Waters and company played several songs from The Wall:

1. The Happiest Days Of Our Lives
   
2. Another Brick In The Wall, Part Two
   
3. Vera
   
4. Bring The Boys Back Home
   
5. and, to finish it all off: Comfortably Numb

Twas indeed a great concert! The enormous video screen in the back of the stage was artfully used, with a variety of images that enhanced the music. Most noteworthy was a comic-book sequence that illustrated the true story told in "Leaving Beirut." As one might expect from a Pink Floyd show, there was a floating pig above the audience at one point. At a different point -- during "Perfect Sense, Part One" -- there was also a floating astronaut. Very cool! As one would also expect from Pink Floyd, there was an abundance of pyrotechnics on the stage -- explosions, fireworks, et cetera -- and dramatic use of lighting. The most stunning example of this was a gigantic three dimensional rotating manifestation of the Dark Side of the Moon logo at the top of the stadium at the end of the second act... all made out of brilliant lights!

So the concert did a lot to easy the grouchy mood that the Battersea folks left me with, and it made my trip into London worthwhile. I eventually got back to Skullcrusher Mountain around 2am and collapsed into bed with cheshcat and The Boy soon after. It was a little odd to see Waters perform without The Kiddo this time... but he and I have plans to meet in New York to see Billy Joel's "Last Play At Shea" in less than two months, so that gives me something else musically themed to look forward to.

---

[*] I have also heard people use the "wild animal" argument as justification before when they are tired of caring for their cat, so they just dump it outside. This is a pathetic excuse for a truly reprehensible behaviour.

[**] Ignore the potential for making a pun here, please. Really, it just isn't worth it.

[***] There is also a cultural effect going on here, as most people I know in the UK think it is weird to keep indoor cats, while most cat carers I know in the US keep their cats wholly indoors.

[****] Before Foxy and Totoro died, anyway. Now that he is alone for the first time in his life, he is noticeably less cheerful. The Boy is a very social cat, which is one of the reasons why I want to find him a kitten quite urgently.

[*****] Where, by some stroke of luck, The Kiddo and I ended up scoring some incredibly good floor seats!

Comments

[blur01.livejournal.com]

I am jealous.

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

Of the concert or the cat brush-off? *wry smile*

More seriously, the only other time you have said that something I wrote made you jealous (http://anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com/151798.html?thread=1069046#t1069046) was when we did the Solstice overnight at Stonehenge, with open access and all. I think you know that we are doing it again next month... and you are more than welcome to join us if you can swing it (http://anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com/152003.html?thread=1072323#t1072323). Just let me know!

[blur01.livejournal.com]

I'd love to hold out hope that I will, but I know
its very unlikely this year. Having some issues that I gotta take care of before I travel again. Im supposed to be in Guatemala right now...SIGH!

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

Guatemala? Cool! Why are you supposed to be there?? (And why aren't you?)

Sorry to hear that you will miss Stonehenge this year. I'll be Stateside in July and probably throwing a party at the Event Horizon (in Chicago) on either Sat July 19 or Sat Aug 02. Hopefully you can make it and we can meet at last! I don't usually have LJ friends that I don't know in real life -- you are one of only two exceptions and I'd like to fix that by actually meeting you both!

[blur01.livejournal.com]

And jealous of the concert.

I vowed that I would see PF in concert no matter where they were when they did another concert. I was pretty sure it would happen due to RW's vow tht he'd play at the wall if it ever came down. Well, it came down and he failed to show. Kinda soured my view of him (and Im one of the few people that actually liked Radio Kaos). Then, recently, I found out that most of the band was on tour, and playing in my town the night of the show. Quite the blow to my "I love Pink Floyd" cred.

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

Heh. I liked Radio KAOS, too! Indeed, I used a line for it as the title for my very first journal entry (http://anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com/503.html)!

I'm not particularly keen to see the rest of the band perform, to be honest. All the Pink Floyd works I like are those where Waters wrote the lyrics -- he does an incredible job and they really speak to me. That's why I've seen RW in concert four times and the rest of Pink Floyd not at all...

[kat1031.livejournal.com]

Wow, I just find the mandated outdoor cat thing to be truly reprehensible. Have they never noticed mangled animals on the roadside?

I'm fine with the concept of outdoor animals in areas with no cars... if you can find one of those anywhere these days.

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

Have they never noticed mangled animals on the roadside?

Exactly! And we just happen to live right on the busiest street in North Oxford. Yet somehow we are unfit to adopt one of their animals, because we will protect it from traffic by keeping it inside.

Oh, there has been many a rant from me about this since yesterday afternoon. "World famous" or not, those Battersea folks have torqued me off royally!

[kat1031.livejournal.com]

The fact that animal companions tend to be treated as disposable by humans makes me rather ill.

Of course, in general, humans make me rather ill, so I suppose it comes as no surprise.

At any rate, mandating outdoor animals is irresponsible. Between fights, cars, sick people, disease, larger animals, etc. there are far too many ways that a domestic animal (especially a juvenile animal) could be harmed that I can't fathom why anyone, anywhere would think that's a good idea.

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

The fact that animal companions tend to be treated as disposable by humans makes me rather ill.

Couldn't agree more.

Of course, in general, humans make me rather ill, so I suppose it comes as no surprise.

Well, fair enough. But I am not misanthropic in general and I still feel the same way as you about this.

At any rate, mandating outdoor animals is irresponsible. I can't fathom why anyone, anywhere would think that's a good idea.

Exactly. Even living in rural areas, where the risk of being hit by a car is low, you have predators to contend with. I knew a guy in rural Vermont who owned his own farm and had outdoor cats. At first, this seemed like a good idea to me. Except none of his cats ever lived to be older than about three -- they kept getting eaten by wolves or coyotes or something of the sort. (Not sure which tends to roam rural Vermont, but you get the idea)

Bah. Still angry about this. On a practical level, I am frustrated by the delay in my plans to get a new friend for The Boy. On a personal level, I am insulted at the implication that I am not a suitable cat parent because I protect my furry charges.

[bammba-m.livejournal.com]

my mom once told me that outdoor cats (or cats allowed to live outdoors) have a life expectancy of two years. cats who live out their lives indoors typically have a much longer life expectancy.

if you're feeling particularly ... uh... *insert word here that i can't think of* you might try looking up the factual information, and seeing what those numbers are for the UK and bringing that information to the attention of the shelter.

or, just look for another shelter. *shrug*

Good luck!

[squeektoy42.livejournal.com]

I called...but you weren't there. :-(

But it's ok cause I talked to cheshcat instead of you...so I win! :-D

I agree...the policy is fubared! My first cat ever was an outdoor cat, and only because he started that way. And long story short, I had to give him up to a family friend with a 30+ acres farm because he didn't get along with the people who lived around us. I will NEVER do that again unless I live somewhere with lots of land and the cat/s start that way anyways.

:-)

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

Indeed! I was out ringing bells. Tuesday night practice, dontcha know?

Thanks for calling anyway, sweetie! I agree -- we should talk soon! And, hey, talking to the lovely cheshcat is always a win!

It seems that everyone writing from the States agrees with me on the inanity of the mandated outdoor cat thing. I really do think a cultural divide is at play here. I hope that all the other shelters don't feel the same way. Otherwise, I might need to adopt in the States and bring another cat that way. And I already know what a headache that is!

By the way, Chesh tells me you were asking about the BJ money. Yes, The Kiddo did receive it -- thanks!

[squeektoy42.livejournal.com]

Ahh...I for some reason forgot about your Tuesday night practice. We should talk soon, but you are right...talking to Chesh is always great!

Yeah, I remember what a headache that was for you guys...I hope you can find another shelter that doesn't have this bizarre policy. I just don't understand why they would think that way...do they not have problems with animals getting injured by cars over there? Or do they just not care? Weird...

Good! I actually got a call from my bank last week and they found the check...after someone tried to cash it. I didn't get the whole story, but it turns out this guy working a post office station near here had been taking mail with checks/money orders in them for a while...I am very glad he got it and am SO looking forward to the concert!! :-D (and seeing your wonderful self, of course!)

[thirteen-ravens.livejournal.com]

"It seems that everyone writing from the States agrees with me on the inanity of the mandated outdoor cat thing. I really do think a cultural divide is at play here. I hope that all the other shelters don't feel the same way. Otherwise, I might need to adopt in the States and bring another cat that way. And I already know what a headache that is!"

Amusingly our youngest cat Shanie was only given to us by the shelter in the understanding that she was an indoors cat and that we would always keep her indoors. This was only because she was very nervous, and had also been kept indoors for the first eighteen months of her life. Of course we sort of thought the sanctuary rules were a bit strict. We did keep her inside for the first six weeks, then gradually began to introduce her to the garden too - first in a harness, then after another two weeks let free under supervision. (Because she was eating everything in sight, including gravel and flowers...LOL) The next six months after that we always called her in at night, didn't allow her to stay out after we'd all gone to bed. Now, however she's fine, goes in and out as she pleases. And even totally surprised us last Winter by growing a thick longhaired Winter coat complete with ruff/mane...! Turns out we had a Norwegian Forest Cat breed and didn't even know it!!

I think it's entirely up to the individual cat's tastes, whether they like indoors and/or outdoors; ours have always had a free choice anyway, and we never shut them outside if they don't want to be out - and vice versa. We especially never shut them out in the wet and cold (Unless they wanted to be outside - hunting or catching mice - and refused to come when called/bribed with food.) Shanie spends over three-quarters of her time out, (And when she's outside sometimes wants us to come out too, and will sit on the patio table and yowl eerily until we get up to see what the hell's the matter, at which point she stops yowling...crafty little thing!!) Whereas Buffy is very prim and clean and just can't really be bothered with the Great Outdoors... hey, she has a sofa and a nice comfy computer chair (Dad's, but she steals it from him) and also my bed. Why on earth would she ever want to go outside in the mud, dirt and wet? ;)

Anyway, there will be shelters around with cats that have been kept indoors previously, or won't mind. Just a question of continuing to look. :)

[ms-redcat.livejournal.com]

OK, looking at your subject line and first paragraph, if you're looking for a pink kitten, that is FAR too specific a request! :)

As far as the shelter's policies, when I've looked into adopting cats in the US, many rescue organizations do not place cats in homes where they'll be allowed outdoors. Period. Too much risk from traffic, other animals (yes, this is a risk in urban areas -- think dogs and raccoons at the least), human cruelty, and communicable disease.

I do think this is a cultural difference -- on alt.gothic years ago, there were several ugly arguments on the subject. The list was pretty evenly UK/US then, and that's how the cat lovers split. UK posters: indoors only is cruel, no matter where you live (urban or rural.) US posters: loving cat parents keep their cats indoors, with a few people saying "well ok, maybe in a rural area where there are no predators to speak of. Since those hardly exist, indoors only."

BTW, do they use "natural" and "wild animal" rhetoric to argue against spaying and neutering? Does the happy animal = outdoors animal apply to dogs, rabbits or other animals?

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

OK, looking at your subject line and first paragraph, if you're looking for a pink kitten, that is FAR too specific a request!

*laughs audibly* Cute! Lucky I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.

No, a pink kitten wouldn't work. Chesh is allergic to pink, dontcha know? :-)

About the indoor versus outdoor cat split, what you write is yet more data solidifying my hypothesis that this is a cultural discrepancy. I myself would fall into the final category of "okay in a rural area where there are no predators, which hardly exists so indoors only."

I very much like the points you raised in the last paragraph. I wish that I had thought of it at the time. Unfortunately, I was too stunned and flabbergasted to make much of a cutting reply at the time. The idea of being declined adoption because we would protect our kitties by keeping them inside?!? It was something that had absolutely never occurred to me!

[thirteen-ravens.livejournal.com]

From reading other comments here I'm reckoning there is a culteral difference, too. All UK people I know with cats bar one allow them to roam outside (And the one exception is because she lives on a 9th floor flat.) Doesn't really shorten their life expectancy either...well, from my experience, that is. The last three cats we had lived to ages 15, 16 and 17 respectively. But then that's because they were girls and thus dont wander more than about 2 or 3 gardens away. The Tomcats around the neighbourhood, however, are lucky to make it past their fifth birthday because they are too tempted with wandering far away and toward the busy roads...

As an afterthought on predators... our house backs on to farm fields and we get rural foxes visiting the garden - Shanie likes to chase them off! XD Foxes are frightened of cats, generally - There have been several face-offs between neighbourhood Toms and foxes in our back garden recently. The Toms win!

I'll stop rambling now, honest. ;)

[ludy]

i think it is mostly a cultural thing (although my understading from my days on rec.pets.cats way back is that most UK cats would be called Indor/Outdoor by USians rather than being soley Outdoors). I don't get it. If a cat has only ever ben indoors then it's not cruel to keep it in. If a cat is used to going outdoors then it may be cruel to make it be indoors only but sometimes ilness or injury make that necesary. The human's of indoor only cats have a greater responsibility to provide then with company and stimlation which an outdor going cat may be able to find for itself (though that isn't guarteeed) And the best situation for any individual cat depends on the cat, their humans and where they live.
I do think that cats are closer to being wild that most other compainion animals and they should be allowed to do cat things rather tjhan havng tofit to much with humans. But that isn't a necessary justification for letting them go outside if the enviroment is cat-unfriendly.
When i lived in Bradford on a busyish street with almost no front garden with 2 cats they were entirly Indooors and that worked fine. One of them, Martha, was a resqued street-kitten and was initally quite scared of te outside and unfamilar people anyway (though she got over that eventally)
When i came down here (sadly with just Sylvia) i stareted letting her outside because here was a fairly potected garden away from traffic. Now she's used to that i wouldn't want to keep her indoors only for any great length of time - but if she got ill or injured then i might have to. omangel's cat Horrace who has varoious age related aliments including significant sight loss (he's 17) decided for himslf to be pretty much indoors only - he just stopped going outside unless omangel goes with him.
When i moved last year finding somwhere Sylvia safe was one of my biggest priorities

I hope you find a shelter with a more flexibale re-homing policy soon

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

Loki was an indoor-only cat all his life. When we adopted him, the SPCA didn't demand that we keep him indoors, but they presented us with the risks, and strongly urged us to have him be an indoor cat. He did get out every once in a while (see squeektoy42's LJ), and he always seemed interested in the idea of going outside... but whenever he got out, he very quickly decided he'd rather be back inside where it was temperate and safe, and food and skritches were available. (He wasn't stupid!)

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

Really sorry we missed your visit to Greenwich!

I have known several people have difficulties with Battersea, they are v strict in a bunch of odd ways.

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

That's okay -- I really wasn't there long. Just popped in for the concert, really.

As for Battersea... well, I am still fuming a bit, but there is nothing I can do if they want to be anal-retentive dogmatic [expletive]s. Need to go back and start calling other shelters. *sigh*

[ms-katonic.livejournal.com]

It is a cultural thing - dr_d's cats have outdoor access. They're both about 6-ish. My grandparents' cats were both allowed outside, and neither died young (it was cancer killed them in the end, I think). And I personally would not feel any guilt about allowing adult cats I might own outside access presuming they'd been neutered and vaccinated thoroughly, the place had access to the outside world for them, and I wasn't on a main road. And if my home was not suitable for outdoor cats... I probably wouldn't get a cat at all. None of which is a judgement on your decisions - your circumstances are different. Your cats have never been outside so would not be able to cope, and your flat's not remotely suitable for outdoor cats - no direct access and it's on the main road out of Oxford! It would be an extremely bad idea for you to let any cat living there outside! It all comes down to individual circumstances, and yours point to indoor cats.

Hope you can find a more flexible shelter - they do exist, I'm sure, and Battersea's have gone down in my estimation for being that insistent. If I'd known about the policy, I wouldn't have suggested them. I'm sorry, hon. Next place you visit, emphasise you live on a busy main road and there's a really good chance any cat you let outside would get run over. Better yet, ring and ask about their policy in advance. Good luck, sweetie.

[anarchist-nomad.livejournal.com]

If I'd known about the policy, I wouldn't have suggested them. I'm sorry, hon.

No problem. I asked for suggestions and you gave me what sprang to mind. It isn't your fault that they are too rigid and unreasonably dogmatic, putting their policies ahead of the actual good of the cats.

Next place you visit, emphasise you live on a busy main road and there's a really good chance any cat you let outside would get run over. Better yet, ring and ask about their policy in advance.

I will definitely ask about this policy from any other shelter before I go there! I have no desire whatsoever to waste another afternoon chasing shadows (and enduring insults). I would have asked this time... except that it did not even remotely occur to me that protecting one's furry charges could disqualify one from being considered "suitable" people for adoption. Feh.

P.S. With regards to "I personally would not feel any guilt about allowing adult cats I might own outside access", I should point out that one does not own a cat -- or any other animal. One lives with cats, one cares for cats... but one does not own animals. They are thinking beings, not property. Just sayin'

[xirpha.livejournal.com]

Here in the States, outdoor cats are discourage. My brother John has a small horse farm outside of Woodstock IL in McHenry County. He has indoor cats and outdoor cats. The outdoor cats live in the horse barn. The state of Illinois considers feral outdoor cats a public nuance because they kill small mammals and birds. The county pays for the spay and neutering of feral cats to keep the population in control. The fixed cats are allowed to live in the barn as that keeps other cats from moving in.

Outdoor cats at night are a danger to themselves and other animals. Cats as pets should spend most of their time indoors. Indoor cats should live in groups as they need social contact to be healthy.

Our three cats are mostly indoor cats. Gregory lets Checker and Coal to go into the garage when he is out there. They will wander around the garage and the gardens. If outside at night the cats will come to Mike's window and howl till they get back inside.

I think "Pink" would be a great name for a cat, especially a large Tomcat.